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With Nick & David
With Nick & David

Episode 9 · 2 years ago

S1E9: Reboot

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Tune in to hear this week's guest, the dazzling Kate Thurston-Griswold, join us to get introspective and take on personality changes, the American prison system, big pharma, movie reboots, vocalist preferences, and sugar daddies!

Yes, hello, I was wondering if youcould play that song again, HMM, which one man, the one that goes big baby,believe beaberriver ver, beed, baby, Beleve, Beeberno man, you think of welcome to with Nick and David. This isepisode. Nine. Can you remember our very first episode our pilot episode?Okay, what was the very first thing I talked about. Hey might have been thefirst thing either of US talked about ever we talked about Jarspith. Wetalked about a country, music country, music. WHAT ABOUT COUNTRY MUSIC? Howpeople don't like it right because they think it's there was a political sideto wo think I was mostly conservative, but it was becoming liberal. I kind ofmy theoryah allright now t'SSO, since that episode has come out. I just wantto point this out. Taylor, swift has come out and publicly supported theDemocratic candidates in Tennessee and thousands of people have registered tovote because of her carry underwood released a new album and it is superpolitical and she's getting a lot of backlash for it and Brad Paisley justput out a song with Lo cool j, called accidental racist about repping sout,but like being ashamed of it and trying to create like a cultural connection,which I have my own thoughts on but pobably being. I was right. Oh my God,right Lookkee, you is not a great co fact. Also, if we're going to go offthings that were Wright about yeah go for it, the episode where we talkedabout we that we hope that this would be the last time we talked about KonyanWest, doing something stupid o we went on vacation. He had a Lunchon withPresident Yeah and just perswe oready. Do something e Ie t a week afterwardshe did so. The point here, I think, is that Dave and I are like fortunetellers, a your on rely fortune. So if you're listening to our podcast you'rein the no, we like the start, Ig yeah go for it let'Sdo it. So I have a theory. This is what thisis working off of a theory: Okay name, your top five favorite music, likeartists or groups off the top of your head, vocalist like with with ligorics,not like with classcal shit or town like guns, and rose okay, yeah at gunsand roses. I guess right now: Travi, Scott, okay, Boston. I know that's more classic RodRight. This is hard to think about the top of my head Jz and MNM. Okay Yeah. All five ofthose are guys. Okay, I like a them Ar rappers noaright, so I'm going somewhere, hea Yo know where I'm going, but damn overfallbreak, which was a while ago at this point, but overfall break. I was in New York couple days. I wentto see wicket and it was really good. It was amazing,but I couldn't hear the sopranos like, like I mean I could hear them, but hitsounded like they were at Nunciinn or whatever, and afterwards everyone wasasking me about it and like what I thought of it, and I was saying that I liked Hamilton moreand part of that is because of what the like the colactual content of theperformance thut part of it's about the voices and I started thinking about it, and you know I like male voices morethan I like female voices like in terms of music. Like I my favorite artistright now, like Brice Vine, the weekend college Johnny Cash Chris Tabledovillage like across all Zenras, I will listen to a male vocalist overfameof a list and yeah. I love like carry Underwood, absolutely love her.Yes, I E E pleasure Camilla ASME guilty pleasure. Well, that's a whole other thing. Ithat's not about the gender, that's more about like what oens like acontact. Camila REKYO WHO's on tour with lasy right now saw her lad,absolutely love her Duffy bally pardonlike. I do like women votless,but for the overalling majority. I prefer Mal vocalisand, so I just wantto talk about. Why do you know why? No, I tell you, I havea have a theory, but it's related to just well well I'll, get there we'llget there, but you yo have any thoughts. Well, I guess the first thing thatcomes to mind and I don't think this is maybe thre's there's multiple reasons I think,but one of which is when I got my license and I started driving okay. Ithink that was a turning point into what kind of music I listend to,because at least where I in my high school,like a thing to do, is you know you have all the windows down and you'reblasting your mes right going to school, leaving school, and so I thought, andso other drivers thought people would judge you based on thisliter Listito,which Hasso I'd have mine coming to school playlist and my leading schoolplaylist interestment. I would never be caught dead listening to sometg that Idid not want to like Ditin, but you didn't want people like associate, andso I would always blast like paradise. City. Welcome to the jungle or justlike guns, an Roses Boston like classic rock, because I feel like I could mostidentify with that. Even though I also love listening to wrap and I love listening to there. ILove I have a lot of female artists like I have a lot of Katy Parry YeahCarry Underwood on. I Have Nikki Manota,...

...so I don't really like anymore thatmuch by the time I did but but like I wouldn't might by go to song, would notbe that and I think honestly, it is because I felt kind of demasculatedlike Surtino like leave school. Listening to that. So it's like acultural like societal thing. Yeah I mean I don't listen to Arion a Gronday,not because I don't think she's good, but just because, like I was like O he's, probably so ut whatbout like when you're alone. Well, when I was in London, the the some I don't know, don't venknow the name, but this really catchy song kept coming on in clubs and stuff,Okay and Mars, and I came in an you saing, a sigess if you tos song Wut. Idon't I o is the one where it goes. Is it Orenagonda where she says? No, maybeit's Dimi Lovota the broken hearted song yeah. You know I'm talking yeahplaying cine on t e actual ARTISTU. I was like that's so cool and I came backand people were like. Oh it's, someone son. I was like why yeah like I like Irecognize for me. It's finy. I don't even think it's a sidenote, totallyside, total side. Note I, over the summer I had an internship in DC and itwas like about an hour commute forty five minutes like depending on how thattraffic was sure- and I started doing this thing about what you said withpeople blasting music. So I got some of my best looks driving blasting countrymusic out of the windows in DC, because everyone does like a dob they're likenot expecting eyour country, music in DC, right and so you're driving anthere like do a double tape like the seaons playing it. It's amazing, but Idon't even think it's a like a for me anyway. I don't know that it's acultural thing or like a societal thing. I recognize that Aron, a Grande I justgenu like I recognize she has an amazing voice, but I genuinely wouldrather listen to the weekend. Like I don't know what it is well see. I don't like this thing tothe week, a for the same reason why I interest like listening to Demmi, Ravavo or Aona Gronda, so studycame out that said in the guardianor daily melons UK baseyeahagents. That said that men overwhelming would create more hitsongs than women do like you, take all that, and I think itwas specifically about like love and romance or whatever, but like all thehit. Pop songs are armby songs across a couple IFFRENGENEES genres, the vastmajority of them were put ut and then over them, women, which I thought wasreally interesting. So it's not just me right. That's listening to that, and it's also not just singing, which Ithink is interesting, so like during the last election there're all these like whenever,whenever female was running for office or in the public spatlight, she alwaysgets called like shrill or whatever. Like that's a word that ets sturingaround and men, this was from an Atlanta carticle. I was reading menwith low voices come across as more attractive, more like physically,stronger, more trustworthy and more confedent, and women with lower voices also come across as all of those exceptfor more attractive. Like we perceive women. Higher voices is more attractive.That's probably a cultural thing yeah, but the point the article was making.That is that that could be a tabias towards mascularity, but that couldalso be I don't know how this plays in the music, but I thought it wasinteresting. Hiy could also be a bias toward age because, as you get older, your pitchdrops especially with women and so appreciating or favoring a deeper voicemight be a sign that you're favoring someone with more age and experienceand, like wisdom, I don't know it was just an interesting theory that youcame up with it was mentioned in the Atlantic Yeah, but I've been thinkingabout it lately yeah well, my because my response was rigally going to be pleis in my guess. This still counts, but is the music like is music still behind the Times youknow and Sur like twenty, two thousand and eighteen, where we're here you knowtrying to be inclusive with all the iyou know, jobs and right. You knowrunning for president and just politicians and like equal pay, and allof that like is music. You know a D we've had all thesemovements in Hollywood, like have has, has bhen music industry had a big like.I don't. I honestly, don't think so, and we talked about that kind of with,like the content that male and female, like artists are allowed to th saying so, like Howe, has a malegaze right yeah, so I just thought that was a really interesting, because I'mrecognizing that in myself and it's I was doing looking it up and it's notjust me at all. No, so I thought it was interesting to bring up and kind ofthink about it. That's really interesting I'd be curious to knowother people's LS. We should ask our guests yeah twitter, we Willwe, willask definitely ask four guest and also Aur twitter followers, that's reallymale or female poalist yeah. Well I mean which d you listen to Morrof, youdon't have to like pick, that's a good and if you can figure out why wellstart a twitter pooll starting a yeah, and if you can figure out whydefinitely let us sno we're going to start a twitterbooll cool. All rightwon te Bon to your first topic: Yeah, let's change gears, so you have a nicetype sheet of nose here. I AVEAN ICAME an red heat of notes all right.

So what I want to talk about today,aure prescription drugs on t, know okay and we're talking like a kind inparticular now Ereso about legal prescription, judg or HEU can buy obviously with the prescription Brend.This matters whet I'm going to talk about really matters to anybody whobuys prescription drugs in the US and a lot of people do the Mao claing back in two thousand andthirteen did ha study and revewl. It's seven out of ten seven of ten Americanstake prescription drugs. That's so ie ewi. We like te legally like for a yessurlily but like like chronically or like for specific things, but becauseyou can exall, it's a included, includon got it yeah and two thousandand sixteen there is also a study. That said us. Consumers have spent threehundred and twenty billion dollars on prosciption drugs, and that's just inretail Teca not include t hospitals, doctors, offices, that's insane, that'slike so so what I want to talk about is with prescription drugs. The UnitedStates is actually only one of two countries, the other one, being NewZealand that allows drug makers to advertise on Television Ota. I knowthat I did not know know that either and so you've obviously seen thecomvercials. We know T we're talking. You know all know what I'm talkingabout right, wher, they opening side of Thatli yeah yeah, like that's a darkmood and someone's in painments black and white, and the narrativesdiscussing the pain and hardship one might have, and then the drug comes in,they introduce it and a shot, always changes to a colorful nature. Tats likea field or something yeah. People are being active and smiling and you'llnotice. During those scenes, like you just said they that they always tend toslip in the side effects that's legally required. However, they are not required to giveany information on the cost of the drug or state whether there's a cheaperalternative to that drug. But right now what's happening is this actually mightchange under the trump administration? So the Department of Health and HumanServices released a blue prate back in May. Okay, okay, call! The Americanpatients first and they release four strategies that they want to impose ondrug companies in the US. So the first one was boosting competition, so youAUE, obviously right rign out O monopoly on one thing: ECAE o PiseisJack Up and the second one is to enhance the power of government likethey want the government to be able to negotiate the drug prices with he drugcompanies, which is interesting because that whole partyand platform is foundedon like free market capitalistic principles, yeah, okay, yeah, no, it'syeah! This is crazy right, so the third one is to bring down out of pocketcosts. Okay right and the fourth one is to creat incentives for thepharmaceutical industry to list the drug prices at a lower rate. The goalof this is to have more transparency and ultimately to reduce the cost ofdrugs, because prescription drugs can be very expensure, especially dependingon the insurance plane you may or may not have, with the benefits of all that,and so, according to this proposal, any drug that costs more than thirty fivedolars a month. Ba Son, like typical what recommended Yousi has to abide bythis new regulation. This is propose this isn't hit yet. So, what's so hitme? What's the and so we'll hold on so TA, here's the thing so that they, whatthey want to do is like the text and the commercial they want it to not belike small text with the prace. They want big text and they wan't like ahigh contrast, so h t everyone can see it right and so the response that thedrug companies are saying to this obviously they're saying no. Theresponse is saying that it will confuse people, because the price and at theprice advertised is not the same for every sort. overyone us because, like Ijust said, everyone's insurance pens are different, and so the drugcompanies are now saying. Okay, don't go forward with this regulation willput the Insi on our website and tell the viewers in the TV commercials tovisit our website for price details, but the argument back is website. Price information is not thesame as actual putting the price up well, plus they could just parry it onthe website and how many people are going to go. Look exactly so. Myquestion is, you know the other. The otherlat last part of this is in termsof how the government would actually enforce this. Their right now idea isthe kind of print out a annual list of drug companies that don't abide by thispolicy. Okay and to kind of like, I guess, shame them if he will like apublic allright yeah. But in my opinion and we've seen this in the pastcompanies that often get probably shame for going something often times doesn'treally hurt them, or doesn't that does noth, actually change the cost orreduce the price for consumers or whatever right, and so my question isthis: Is this is obviously a big deal because, like I said this impacts a lotof people in the US? Do you think this regulation would actually work to insure lowerprices from the drug companies? That's my first question. So we'll start withthat, I think it would probably help if therewas a a punitive measure besides public shap.We talked about this is y, my...

...environmental economics like Paul ornot economics, environmental politics class. That does nothing like itliterally does no thing, because the companies don't take a hit. People whoare relying on these pharmaceceuticals like on the prscription drugs, aren'tgoing to go out because t ey they don'tknow what the alternative are sothey're not like if you need biagre you're not going to like go, which isnot a great example, because it's not as necessary as some of these other noSu drugs, but Oyou know the brands. You don't know the alternative. So even ifthe stock or the visual brand takes a hiat you're not going to be able to goby somewhere else, so I don't. I don't think I mean it's a step, but I don'tthink it's an Endall beall and again, I'm not ANI'm a policy want, but notlike big farmer, right yeah, and so what I kind of get from this is thatyou know the whole concept of this is for transparency. But the biggerpicture like I said earlier, but we both touched on, is you know, put up patients Americanpatience first, they want the cost to reduce and they want to create morecompetition. But this is a big industry that they'regoing ot. It EAN resoent over three hundred million dollar industry waymore than that right. So I'm just wondering ing: Do you think there's any way or any different way?They could maybe attack this problem. First of all I mean: Do you think thatthis is a problem that prescription drugs cost as much as they do?Definitely I mean so there's a whole side of this that we haven't touched on,which is over prescription, because people, even people taking themillegally get prescribed medications. They don't need or overash Fridmedications and it's a huge problem with creating Dru, ediction and alsodiagnosing kids with Athdr. Add that don't have it, but you get them hookedon thes early and then it's that's their life. That's a whole other side of this.That's what that's where I thought you were going with this okay. But in terms of this I do think it's amassive problem and I think it's going to have to be a government like it's anissue that only the federal government can intrest, because these companiesare not going to come together and say: Hey, you know what everyone's right. Weneed to be like more sensitive to like class and things like that andaffordability. So that's not going to happen so something needs there needsto be outside pressure, but I don't think I don't think just just namingthe companies publicly like there need to be sanctions of somesort, or do you stank the financial right so they're going over and they'reexchanging feedback. I guess fror the next like two three months, but let'ssay that this actually goes through. Okay, everything. I just mentioned: No,it don't changes. Do you think that's worth ananything or do you think thatthey should't even bother until they come up with something? I think so? Ihave mixed thoughts because I think it will be worth something I think it'llit'll be a step in the righy direction. But if you force this on big farmandnow and then you realize it's ineffective and you try to pushsomething else on them later then, and they've already accepted this. Now theyhave a platform to say you can't keep puttingregulations on this or whatever, whereas if you just held off until youhad something more concrete and more objectively effective, you could throwthat on them and say this: Is it like? We can negotiate this, but this is whatwe're doing so. I think I think it'll probably be helpful, but also long termmay hurt efforts to kind of curbe this problem and trices. The otherinteresting part that actually forgot to mention was this regulation is alsoonly Ifin capasces. It would only apply to commercials, Ind Television Or, likemovie theaters social media, like any kind of website. Radios like itmagazines, it does not apply so anywhere else anywhere else yeah, so we're talking about, like I meanobviously there's still ads on like Pulu, if you rike a basic Tryo, wetalked about that. So I'm wondering what percentat like. Does this really matter because, like a lot of peopleare on yes- and I was you have to know what percentage of Big Farmaadvertising goes through television and Radio magazine or whatever thosechannels versus everything else yeah? But now I didn't know that when you askme for and now that you're Sayingitd, I think definitely this isn't not. Thisis a meaningless piece of Osolation and it like effectively that it's doingnothing. So with that, my final question: okay, are you surprised at Althat this is coming from the trump administration? I'm Shok we're gettinga little political here, but I this is, I really know I was Sur. I read thisand this is'n, The Wall Street Journal ABC News, CNN, New York Times. Look atup. This is not fake news. So like it s so, like I touched on, this is a partyand platform, an his traitioally, been keeping government out of fram marketand has traditioally supported big Farma. So it's surprising to me in thatsense that they would do this hunred and eighty, it's less surprising to meand that they're trying to are completely eradicate Obama, care andOrd Commenticare, whatever you want to call it yeah, but they're, trying tocompletely eradicate it and there's been a lot of pushback, because a lotof studies ave showing this. If you askconservative voters, do you like public...

...health charanty like Medicare they'll,say yeah like we like it? But if you say you like Abama Care, they'll belike no Fuckobama, I've heard of thit yeah, and so there's this huge thingwhere they're trying to get rid of Obama care, while keeping the same kindof benefits that they avoid this massive push back, and that might be away that they're doing it like tthey're, trying to kind of appease peoplethrough lowering prescription to drug prices so that they can push this otherlegislation out right. So you think it might become ofa package link, so I think it's surprising, but I think, like bigpicture, it might make sense, although at such a fucking mess over there likein the GP right now, it could hus coulbe a total mistake and no one wouldknow it. Just really somein itern somewhere was like. Let's do this andeveryone was like yeah great right. Well, this came from the Department ofHealth in Human Services and they tout thetrump administration. They all wereconnected, but I found it really came out of nowhere. Man Now that this isdefinitely been a problem, and I like it's interesting, I the point youbrought up with that were often prescribed drugsprescription drugs that maybe people don't actually need or too much thandrug and prectic is industry. Yeah, that's also adefinitely yeah. I meanI'd like to think that we're all looking off for each other, but it is turs corruption, all these industries and, unfortunately, yeah that's a bigproblem, so nice passag or thought o you guys mouthful, but it Havn't haveany thoughts. Pik FARMEM, if you take prescription drugs, which O seveny mustbe really do them. This might affect you, yeah yeah, Aright, we're going togo to a break and we'll be right back after this short announcement from bakefarmer, our sponsor welcome back. We are on social mediaand all the platforms that we mentioned before at Nik. David Show Nice. I got Iright yeah, I always hesitate. Okay, cool at Nake, David Show and ITANSinstagram fishbook twitter. I tunes Google play music, pobbing twitter, youmisi said toter B s all right. Let's do it to yeah, so I have my second topic.Okay, I kind of thereare two kind this is very loose like this is always verylose, but this is even looser. Okay, ther're kind of two parts of this. Iwant to talk about You'e, ready, Yep, Sug, your daddy's, oh Geez, or sugarmamas or sugar babies like the whole package that whole thing. Okay, I knew it was a concept like I knew itwas a thing I found out last year that I've known three people who have beensugar babies at the College of Wocester, which is not a huge school. So Istarted looking into it and found you know th the website that seekingarrangements that everyone uses to find like their their match or whatever, and I got really interested in itbecause it's a huge, it's actually a biggerindustry than you think, and it's geared exclusively towards female college students. Well, so, let's, let's, let's definethese terms for a sex. So that's the problem, so so, okay, so that's thething is that the website basically makes it sound like it's a they say.It's quote, a mutually beneficial relationship and quote were like money and sex were so theydon't say sex, no one says sex. So it's like an older person who needscompanionship and wants a young person interest in learning whom mightactually be antrestd in their job or whatever, and the over person wantsmoney yeah, but all the articles and all thestudies and everything that people have done are saying yeah, it's all aboutsex, but no one says that because they don't want it to be seen as like anescort service, even though that's essentially what it is right, and so,when you say thereare sugar babies is that the product of a sugar mom or dad. That's the somebodywho needs money, not the product. No, no, that's justthe person who needs money. WEL! That's what you call this show! Yes yeah. Idon't know this R so like. If you were a sugar, dad wait, wait there. We havesugar babies at this call yeah. We do. We have people who Ereke people whodate like fifty yearolds. Well, not dating, but yeah I mean they. Don'tthey don't use the turn dating because, but yes is that even okay, I won't name them. Irespect their anonymity right. Well, talk bout it, but it's cool wh. It is oright and so N. it's a hugething at colleges all across the country, fun fact: seaking arrangements,wells, yeah and sonfact seeking arrangements, which is the only likethe big website that everyone uses. If you are a woman who uses a thot EDUemail address to sign up, you get a free premium, membership and all theservices that come with that, whereas for guys they have to pay up like up to like twelve hundred dollars for ayears worth of Vhat of service, an or college students, and in this case Imean wwe're talking our college female students attracted because of the ageor is there some other reason? So I think it's es, I think part of it's theage and part of it, at least from what my sources or what I was reading isthat these older men...

...want someone who's, genuilely,interested n them or who likes them for them, which clearly they're not gettingbecause they're paying for it. But if you have someone who's like InterestinCollege, it I mean it's theoretically, it shows that they'reinterested in learning and like have a certainlie intellectual capacity. Youknow what I mean so they're in relationships with these girls becauseof the age, but also because they think that they could have actualconversations and like it's different than just hiring aprostitute you're like you're with someone who can talk, you know, t Imean yeah like I think, that's the appeal. So that's the first part. I just wantedto talk about the college students so fougts on that. Would you would youever consider if you were an older man, would you ever consider having a sugarbaby ash right now? If you weren't in a relationship, would you look for aSugar Mama? No, I mean even if, like how much money would it take, but the thing is that, like it's evendifferent from winning like the lottery you're like gambling, because, like part of I mean I joke ash peoplewhatever like I'm like, I want like fancy car and this stuff yeah that, but,like part of that is like, I want to be able to say that I worked and did thatright. If I just get things from other people, an pe you'd be working, yeahIDN, but that's just like I could not. I mean I would be see. Ithink I'd be mentally like eft up like I don't think I mean just thinkingabout that. I mean so I don't have a problem with it, but is it legal? Sothat's that's kind of headed towards the second part of s. What I want totalk, Tobo, thisis nuts, it's crazy! It's that I didn't know it was that oneof the girls at woster that I know who has done it was like scanning this guyout of a lot of Moneytt. She was using on like makeup kids and things whichare pretty expensive yeah. So it's the thing that being said in we're going to go back a moment, so Ican connect these two things in high school. I was on my online newspaper inone year. I wanted to write a story on tender and onmine dating, but the other publications at ourschool had just Ron a story on pretty much the same thing. So I was liketrolling for other kind of similar topics. I could use right and I cameacross a couple of websites, so the first website it came across is you:can hundred percent type this into any browser and it will come up? I check itbefore this episode, so it's still live promdate depotcom, which is exactlywhat it sounds like. You can go online and rent a promdate or put yourself up there to be someoneelse's promate and the people on that site ranged from high school to liketwenty six year old, like at whatever age, which is interesting. But then the other side I found isalmost more interesting and it's called rent a friendcom. I don't know if I'vetalked to you about this before I think maybe okayit yeah, so wrints a friend is kind of likePROMDA Tepo, but it's just you can go in there and find people to go todifferent events or games or do different things with you. You can alsoapply so me and this Kid Charlie, who I was,writing Wis pieace with he signed up as someone who was looking to rent peopleand I signed up and created a profile as someone who could be rented mmbecause he was younger and it was an age thing yeah, and so, when I was signing up, I had tolist all of these like like was I down to go to bars? Now I was under twentyone, but like whul, I do this. What I deed this like would I've bedone forthis, like what are my interests? What are my skills and nothing happened likewhat were running the story? No one messaged me and I was like well, thisis the bust and then about a year later I started getting messages from peopleand they came from emails like one guy invited me to go drinking with him,even though it said I wasn't twenty one. Another guy invited me to go to a natsgame with him in DC and said he had a free ticket and thet. He Pai me, and Ijust got an email literally two days ago, because I'm still apparentlyactive on that site, because I totally forgot about it with another friendrequest, saying that they'vd like to rent me for something in DC. I haven'taplied to any of these. It's not necessarily the same situationas the sugar, whatever, because it's not long term yeah, but this wholeconcept of paying somebody on spend time with. You does remind me of anescort service or prostitution, which brings questions of legality withit and so like. What are the differences like? Do you have thoughts?Well, first of all, let me let me just what I think about withthis topic is ultimately it's that it's that notion of you know you can bericher than hell sure and be the saddest person the plan right, becauseif you have nobody to share your wealth, it's like Super Sif. I feel bad for thepeople who are messaging, I mean it you can afford to you, know, rent a friendor I should also say that I, my rate, is very low, like I'm, not an expensivefriend to rent on that website. Okay, yeah t so at thatis, the first part, if,when Iw'm thinking of genuine people...

...who really I'm not thinking of anythingsketchor like Bullis, just like, if somebody truly wanted to actually takeit to a NAC game, yeah and just hay out you and paid for your ticket like that's, you know that. That's that that'sreally sad and it's also Nad to think about that they had to go through. Allthat trouble like there either must be absolutely no community that that person is at a partwhich or new the area or new to the area, but that's just I mean butthere's other sources. If you're new to an area I mean there's other ways sotiefendit right, and so that brings up the question of that. The second partis the other thing that I think about. I'm sure a lot of people are thinkingon Mey here this is, I mean, I'm sure that that site gets used. I mean, dothey background shed people. I was not background checked at all yeah I meanyou have to I photos up, but like right and do whaten te fed yo already knowyou know you know where I'm going with this right. I mean this can also beused to kidnap people and just Oh yeah. Youknow like dit, violent crimes and stuff like that, but let's just now all thataside, let's assume that what the website is actually intended for usactually being done. Let's talk about in that basis, I'd be I'd, be verycurious. What they're, like not conversion rate, but how many peopleactually end up, meaning up right, yeah, I in terms of like legality, I mean I neither of us are like e legalexpert. I we is rait g its I mean. I have two other questions too.So Kay do y focus too hard on. I don't think it should be. You know illegal, and I only say that because think about especially traditional gender norms,just and just going on dates like if somebody asks somebody else out on adate. The assumption is that the persontypically a male who askd hey, who atrest will pay for the dinner or themovie yeah whatever, and that doesn't and I've been on several on several butI've. I've been on first date, an a wer layer player now at Morgan. Phoughthoasme we're like the pers on date was jus like no like we're going to split this,and I really I was like well, that's like really. You know rust other peoplekind of just Siy, oh you're, paying! Oh, like you, know, Yeah Jesus. You knowwhat I mean. I Cana Hor trouble with that too, because I usually pay on thefirst date or I offer to yeah and yeah. Sometimes it's like I'll pay andsometimes it's like whatever, and sometimes you get people who are justthen expect you to pay for every date from then on and it's like I'm not. Idon't got tha kind of Bak but yeah, but in a way I mean you are paying forsomebody's time, because if you say it's a servyou say hey, let's go todinner on me. What does that really say? Spend time with me and I'll? Take youou to nice dinner and ill e, Ra food and drinks and ou. So what we reallydicect that that's Atui isn't the difference between. I mean those twothings other than you're putting yourself online and people areobviously looking at you through the differn. So the difference is that it'sa total stranger right, because when you ask someone hout you generally atleast I mean you could ask Tor total rando out, but generally you know themfrom some context. Sure, I think that's and that makes it kind of morecomfortable than anyway. So so here, so what's your second or what's your XexEtween, would you do it because you said you wouldn't engage with like asugar, daddy or SICA baby or any of that? But this is like a one, because Ihonestly considered it. I was in the DC area yeah and I was like Freenass gamelike I like honestly, that's very getse. If you, I know you don, have a gun, butyou should have taken like a pocket Han. You can't get in the NAT stadium withanything. Well, okay, oerhe's typt! I mean no. I would not do that, but I wouldfind resources to meet New People. Sure I mean it's like, but outside of that,but outside it not no. No, I didn't I didn't mean. Would you sign up for that?I meant if someone requested your services as a friend like if you wereon Loks, say theoretically were on the site and somethings like assuming thatI would do this, which I I I wouldn't beliee e Su. Okay, yeah, assuming yougo you're on the site and someone's like Hey, want to come to this car showwith me I'll pay for everything you wouldn't go no, but only because I feel like- andthis is what I mean. This is what the flipside is: okay, so par with me. Okay,I feel like if they said I would paid for you. I feel likethere's a power dynamic shark. I ow, Oh, I vpshe paid for it oShuld. I owe them Soe, but that that's what people who males typically askfemales out right, mhey take poert yeah and it's a powered in Anvero. That'sthe same, like you know what I'm saying so I would Iwould go assuming it was sketchy I would go. I would love to find socialnetwork groups or whatever that like...

...say, Hey, we're going to this car showcome, but mine is the paing thing. Okay and Jonmoney aspect makes it a little little Ha. That turns me all right, andso I this last thing is not really important at all, but so so when heinvited me, I was thinking like this could be really awkward, because ifthis person has no friend like assuming they're not trying to harm me rightperson has nobody in their life to go to this game with them, for whateverreason, so this could be a very socially awkward time like if theydon't have good social skills or there a total creep or something like thatlike this could not be fun. But on the flip side of that, whathappens if you, you agree to go as someone's friend they're, paying youand you get there, and you find out that you really really enjoy spendingtime with them. Do you keep charging them like for thattime? Or do you just say: Hey, let's be friends outside of this now you you keep charging, you keepcharging them, even if you like, really like them well and then you marry, andthen you spread the money all right, farnol mean I don't know. I mean that'sassuming but see where I went with that already I yea this is a rent, a friendnot yet todate, like probably a depo, I didn't even get intothat was way to therare tons of, like guys were fnoras Bcau Youma sixteenyear old nerd or somebody like with some like twenty four year old, likefitness model, they hot photos, I that seriously sour listening, fake, FromdanDPOTCOM. Please pull it up. DPOT depot, it's a really Intran runc of friends,interesting to but probsypose fantastic. I have no idea. I didn't stay on thatloveside for too long, because I thought I did put on some list Cheez. So anyway, that's what I wantedto talk about yeah. We can go to your next topic and the will broher guessten all right. Well, so I want to talk about the idea of reboots and SEABULS: Okaymovies. Okay. This is just real, quick, pold kind of opinion right. So you seen- and you know, that a bunch ofDC and marvel movies and TV shows have been rebooted a million times ChartSpiderman has gone through the original and the amate, and the amazing andThenspadaman, like all this stuff, spedme an homecoming etce, and evenbefore that they've had TV shows and etce Batman Million Times. You Know James Bond has so many moviesand they meed voted all the time. Talk on RCE on one thousand nine hundred andeigy six ey one coming out next year, exactly Halloween out now yeah how manytimes Dav they freaking yeah star as born, has been remate like sixtimes and and star wars, putting on a bunch of different sequels and spinoffs. Okay. So my question is when I like growing up and learning aboutmovies suth like the series and franchises, such as Star Wars. I remember my parents, my grandparentslike they would tell me like they still do. You know like Wen thet, Wen StarWars, for like episode, IV Ike came out. He was a huge freaking deal andeverybody was like, like it was a huge deal and it was just this monumentalmoment and I really can't think of anything in our history right now likelit ougeneration thalike, because, like I'm, biased like I could say fast andfurious, was cool, but some people could say, twilight school somebody,some people could say hunger games is cools. You want something likeyo, OOnafon, a magnitude that these old movies did and I'm talking about onlyaction movies. I understand that, but my question is: Do you think that we'regetting lazy as like? Not Us, because we're not writing these things, but doyou think, like pollywood its just spinning the same formula and we're nothitting this like new creative? Like you know, with all these read, what arewe going to tole kids like when this came out? This is a huge thing andBumbleb. I think they're definitely milking some of these series for money,like that's all, they're doing sure. As far as our generation goes tangentially, I know I've been saying awhile lately was I gonna say: Oh Harry Potter, yeah,like they solyea, they did all t e all the books pit, the last book into twomovies and then ow they're, putting out these te're doing that. So that's what I would say is they'redoing that and I don't think I think that they, yes, those are. Those movesare exclusively because they have this fan base and they know that they canget people to go to the movie. It's not about the actual like product anymore,but I don't think any movies really are well. I guess Harry Potter. I MEA didthe first ARY Potter movie come out when we were kids yeah, so maybe that'ssomething that just sows make so long ago. It does don't know. I just I feellike with Star Track Star Wars, James Ban, originallymarius yeah, but it'snot the same magnitude. Sure I mean how many people I mean I feel like on notwith Sadman but like star wars hit. It was such a success like I, I soi, I'mjust waiting for the next like like what the next fig thing. Thas hit right,that's not like another Gurassic part movie or ISO in Ou, know those cases,the big magnitude ones. I don't think they're being lazy, because they're bigin magnitude for a reason like if they...

...were, if they were just a if they wasjust a straightforward like drawn long likedrawn out extension of something it would be like it would get panned. No one wouldgo see it or some people would go see him in the word would get out. Butheyrethey're, big, because they're building on the series and doing itwell, which I think is maybe not creative, but that takes a whole otherlike skill, set and mentality than like writing your own new thing. Yeah, Idon't know it's that's interesting, interesting! Think about it. Guys wellput we'll have two poles that go with this podcast. So please go on ontwitter and or facebook can you do? FACEBOOKanic savage sow, probably we'll figure out the avid show in the age, with eill, just I'll post an image on facebook, and you often click on this,like idiots very nice yeah yeah all right. Well, I guess we're going totake a break and we will be back with our guest. Thanks to the training I received inthe empire. I have all the skills I need to make it in the real world. The Empire Gi bill helped me finish:school, Hey, waite up and I met my wife in the service. We had our honeymoon onAlderon good thing. We took pictures, Huh, hathemire, chasing rebel, Sku,killing Lukes ont, an uncle telling people to move along the ampire. Ourships are big triangles welcome back. You are again with Nick and David againfor the third time. I think social media, if you're, not folloing, is sonsocial media. At this point we don't want you to Fus. So it's fine. It'sover. We are here with our guest wosters own kate. Wait Catherine GraceThurston griswole. That's IT TAT oous that right Gooqusn, I'm Gladou as because I foundout recently that I pronounced my own last name wrong. Interesting, so I say:Theres Stingers Wat apparently is Thirstin Gers woold wold, that's very!Like Harry Pottery, it's not like really cute bavly Christmas. I guessnot anything, but I get that question. A lot of people go griswoled have youseen and my grandfather gets really upset. Oh, he doesn't like thatassociation all right, so we have two questions from our earlier segment. Foryou, okay, the first do you prefer male or female vocalists, and why? I think Ilisten to a lot more female, vocal anterustn. It might be because I loveto sing so much that maybe I just like Shart Maifi a little bit or you wantthings that you can sing to or that's a good point, that's a good point, but Ialso am just really drawnto high voices, even even of singers, that I reallylike, like Mitch. Grossy from panedoics yeah has an angelic voice and he's. Ithink my favorite voices are always the ones that can hit super super. Okay,that's a good counterpoints. What we're saying earlier! Second Question:Whatwheare, you saying you'll have to listen to find OSI TNAT! I'm notinterested in listening. is s the second half that you're on Kay?Would you ever consider being a sugar baby and or a sugar Mama I'vecontemplated this. How did the pass? No! I don't think that I would be a Shir. Ithink I'd be a terrible sugar baby. I think it would stress me out: Do youtychically speaking? Okay? Do you think David? Don't say anything? Do you thinkDavid said yes or no? When I asked ithin Javid said that he would be asugar daddy, interesting interest, he said no to allof it reallyc. I thought I think in another life you would. You would dowell for yourself, yeah, okay, moving on hy, you came in here with a couplethings to talk about: Did hit US okay, so this is actually superrelevant tothings a that I discussed with both of you actually in the last couple. Yes,it's been trying to like not tell us these topics for a while asked me notto tell you these tope yeah, well, yeah- and I wouldn't have done that anyway,but so, both you and and David, and we'vesort of been trading around a pictures of ourselves right so shos. So forthose who don't know, we've been sort of pulling up pictures of ourselves fora middle school, an high school and when we were really really little andshowing them to each other, and I've always thought that that's a lot of fun,because I think all of the friendships that we have at whicester sort of justexist within the few years that we've been here- and it's almost like. Youknow the people that you know never existed before. They came to wister andit's difficult to imagine what they were like yeah. So I always find itreally really interesting to talk to people about what they woele like when they wereyounger before they knew anyone here. So my question, my first topic is, is aquestion for both of you. Okay, what is the most significant way and what youthink you have changed as a person since you were younger, so that couldbe like middle school high school yeah. What like main personality things?I have A. I have a quick answer to this, because this is why I wrote my collegelike application, Sion Onew, Kiddin, yeah, okay, yes, Shit E, Haveheingi, tily dont, so I so for most of high s so forMiddle School and high school. Well,...

...this is a sign owt, but for elementaryschool like I did not own cans, I were e Hannts ever like literally I dresslike Aric lass or so, and that is our emension of Eric Waster's Lik. For thisepisode, we've mentioned him once every episode, so I'm glad we' keep. I did no, but it happens. Syou Dresse, like a athlete yeah and Iwor, so I had a different. I could I think at one point I could have worn adifferent soccer jersey every day of the week for two and a half three weeksstraight. Did you have like the Nilone, sweat pants that had stripes goingyesitwith Thi, also break aways? I had breakways for a while, so you actually,I never broke it right now and so that kind of into high school Iplayed you know I played club soccer for a decade. I was captain of thatteam for, like eight years, started jv soccer in my high school asa freshman captain, sochomer or junior year, not and the sofcher o Jineer gotcalled up diversity and so, like my whole identity, revolved aroundsupports. Like I was, I mean I was a good student. I got great rates, but itwas like. I was a jock and junior year winter junior year I toremy acl and I've had ISO like an eleven monthrecovery process and all of a sudden, I had all of this free time that I had noidea what to do with, and so I started looking for things todo and in that time I got really into photography and video. I becamemanaging Ou er of our online newspaper and started writing a lot more. I, like I became a lot more politicallyinvolved an active, and I think that, like I don't know where what I would belike right now. If I had never torn my ICL, I was supposed to play soccer wilsterso.I don't know if I would have changed that much, but I think that kind ofshift allowed me to develop the other aspects of tmy personality and I'mdefinitely better round it. Now at least I think hat've kind of calm downfrom that. Like competitive, I mean I'm Sol competitive, but from that, likeintense edge that I had, which is a good thing, but I don't know it's been. I meanstarting senior year o high school to now it's been a huge shift and, like mypersonality, an and I still play soccer and love watching and everything, but,like my priorities- are very different now than they were there. So do youfeel wat good about that is, as you say, you're more well rounded. Do you feellike that's a good thing? I do I miss it. Sometimes I misplayin competitively,and I miss t the like turf and the field and like everything, but I don't.I don't think I would trade that for where I am now a I'm very happy withhow that's affected me. How like how it've changed since then yeah, that's interesting, because Ithink obviously you're an athletic guying. You know weve played soccer alittle bit but yeah my main sort of identifiers for you or like politics,and writing and Gography, which ID never wo like up until senior of highschool. It was always soccer was my amly identifier or one of them, David, Hey. You have a prep answer tothat d right off the cuff to well welcome tothe showand. Now we're going to wait, fine minutes, fe able to yeah welln pressure, so I guess I'll talkabout high school and I'm unlike what how Nak describes it, whichis beautiful. I was very, very powerful. Thank you stuff. All right, I Davidlike it on the record. Dait is crying there's an emotion in the bood farm. Iso I was very, I guess, especially like as a like child. Likethe am I saying that me like, before Middle School Elementary School, I wasvery hesitant to sort of try new things or put myself into newsituations, and it's still kind of resonates with me. But when I say newsituations like it could be anything from like going on like a like amusement park, ride or going orjoining a club or trying a new sport, and a lot of you know like ever. Since I've camelike here like when I left high school, and I graduated I kind of told myself-you know like what's a new like new fresh shark, and one of my goals was totry like just put myself out there and if anopportunity comes like just take it and then allies it later, not overthink itas much, and so it's just funny like when I lookback on my college career thus far. I took public speaking because notbecause it accounted for anything but because I thought I really liked it. Iwas like I want to do it and that led me to Ta it, which then led me to be aresearch assistant which now led me to be invited to going to London track,which now led me to be a double major like just all. This stuff happened howit did, and I woul never what Weu seen that movie? Yes, man, so what it'scalled Otim Carryan it Weeso, yes, everything and that yeah, that's whatyou remind me of right now, but is other consequences in the movie yeah.But now it sounds like a good thing. Fowell, but like I was, I would justkeep like taking on Yoe stuff and like when you kind of think about like howthings happened. The way that they did,...

I never would have been so kind of confident to okay. Yes, I want to trythis for yes, I want to do this and, like obviously like ie, tried back in high school and stuff. I kindof stuck to you know my tennis soccer and I did some stuff with admissions and the rest of it was like my timelike. I would like play video games and, like that was like my life. I didn'treally want to do anything else. I was comfortable with everything and I think part of that was because Imoved around a lot as a kid, so there might have been so much change going onalready that I wanted to keep some stuff consistent and, I think, being atof college for more than like being in one place for more than three years.Let's me then change some aspects of my life because, like there'salready, likea consistency, right, ecause of things got really deep. I knowi'm like Damn.Do you do you feel like you've sort of at this point in terms of like racademic track and extra curriculars? Do you feel, like you've ended up in adifferent place than you would have predicted when you were in high school?Oh yeah, I yeah I wanted to. I mean I remember touring this collegesaying well, I'm interested in psychology and IAM interested in filmproduction. I remember when you were a psychma. I agree you at Wat, that's epsype Major Ori. I kind of did a whole ninety degree. Now I don't regret it,but, like I I tawd myself, I knew that film productions nonsonting. I couldwalk out of college and produce some like billion dollar film, but I waslike well. I think psychology is really cool like I want to be a therapist allthis stuff. Can You Imagine David? Does a therapist? I can an you screw, you ne.That's gonna go twitterpol, but so it's just it's NAT's, how youthink you know- and I can partly I mean not to like to like liberal aurs colleges likehorns or whatever, but like honestly having to go through a program thatmakes me try new stuff, like I can't just take only cideclasses. I had toexpose myself to other stuff that played a huge role. You know, and Iwould say still there are moments like like. I was just asking recently or getoneof our guests in the Pastelissa. She she and IE R rechurtering a photographyclub, which is something a I thought about se s like do. I want to do thislike this is sound funn like yes, it does, but I was worried about like I haven't done something like thisreally like. Can I cani run a club like? Can I do this? You know and I'm doingit. I don't know what direction I's going to go or how successful will be,but it's exciting yeah. I never would have done that because I'd be tooanxious and just like it wouldn't be a comfortable thing for Mo to do Gyeahall right, Kays mazing, your nextyeah right, like I, you prefare Sop yeah Imean I thought about it right yeah. I think I before was like. I haven't changed atall. You know. I think I've grown a lot as a puren. I think that my personalityhas been pretty consistent, but when I really started thinking about it sortof recently, which is partly what motivated me to want to want to chatabout this ind here, what yellls answers were but yeah. I think that I am much more sort of a sort of personthan I used to be, and I don't know if you're smirking Nick, because I'm notthe most assertive person like I know I think you definitely are but yeah I think I was middle schoolwas, is not like always an excellent time, F R for everyone. So but but it wasn't, you know a greatexperience for me and I was a huge pushover and a lot of ways like I wasalways like very selfrighteous about standing up for other people, but I wasalways really hesitant to o do that for myself very interested in awoidingconflict and that sort of grew over time, partly because of the friendgroup, I hads, not a good friend group thats. I had a really hard time sort of being honest about what I wanted andsetting boundaries and relationships, and I found that sometimes reallyunintentionally. I think people take advantage of that, and so coming tocollege was really great because I mean I'e got to know both of you pretty muchlike right off or that and and you guys, in addition to a lot of the otherpeople that I met here. I think sort of lead by example, and that I've met alot of people who not only consistently treat people the way that they deserveto be treated. But if show me that being assertive is not wrong and it'snot bad and it's something that you shouldstrive for, because it makes you a more honest person and it makes yourrelationships healthier and it makes yourrself confidente stronger, and soI'm really grateful for that and some of the friends I think I had in thelast couple years of high school sort of left. My former friend group and I met somepeople who were just really really kind...

...and and really supportive, and so Ithink that those friends an also David, like you're, talking about sort of theatmospher here like for me. It's H, t the academic part, doesn't really feedinto this. As much but just sort of the atmosphere and how open and Yos otthere's something unique about not just college but well start in particular,absolutely is really great for that yeah yeah, because well, I visited likethe summer before my senior year and I had that, like. Oh, my od Yeaho, mymom's, like you have to come here and I was like I had to come here and Ipiterly decision and I loved it and the main reason I mean it's greatacademically. We've got yes apply to WOSTER Torga. I don't work foradmission but yeah. I really just was sort of theatmosphere and the fact that that people are honest about who they areand what they think and and they sort of don't let people kick thim around,but they're also they treat other people with respect, and so I thinkthat that collaboration and matual respect, I think you happen a reallyreally big impact on me. That's a really good answer. Well, thanks. I hadtime to think that very well come o. So do you at what point when you thoughtabout what you wanted to talk about here? Is that when you kind of realizethis, or is this kind of an Asul realization over your time here, I'mthinking Horas. Basically, what Davids asking is? Are we responsible for thisrealization or yocome ot this I yeah like Yebrk, right N, it has been. It has been a subtlerealization over time, because I knew that I needed to be more self confident,but I think that when you're looking for ways to improve yourself or to growas a person, I think one element is knowing intellectually what kind ofperson you want to be and being like yeah. I want to be more asserted and Iwant to stand up for myself, but I think it's one thing to know thatintellectually another thing to internalize that and to really feelthat and have that become sort of an honest part of of who you are, and Ithink that it's only been sort of recently like this year that I've been reallyhurting. I was like, Oh, I think, then, I'm actually sort of reaching thatpoint a little bit which has been cool, so it has been a little bit recent, butI think it has benets for e Mo process. So we don't get credit we dontWedon'tanes I'll, give you like two percent lawe have to split that thediit so lik o onepercent Nfie for David Point, five, Damn I was going to saythis is the longest you've gone with hat insulting me, but you just rounedit nn on keeping the bottled up, because Iknow you want o as Wrir your listeners good. I I don't really think mylisteners care well, I'm that bomb shol. What else didyou bring it? Did you bring anything on of Cris? I did my Husban Paen Dobyeah,so for those who, Jo for Yeah Simapsychmajor ind like David, I did not abandon the psychology department but you're adouble. That's true. I am a double major double Wat Spanish, but thereason I bring up psychologi is because it's relant o to the topic I wanted totalk about. So over the summer I started listening orwatching a little program called criminal, lowing, Ono Yeayeah. So David,you might know what what I'm going to talk about, but I sort of got obsessedwith the idea of psychopack and I just real quick, shut out Rachel Shricis, mysister anthess with criminal mine, so e I'll make sure you listen to this yeah.Well, the thing is, I never watched crime TV shows really growing up andmore of like a comedy yeah me purse me to and so yeah that and more recentlylike on order Sbou- and I was just so interested by the conceptof of like psychopadhs and Soopass, because criminal mines is like theylook at cerial killers and people whoare very twisted, and that thatmight sound weird when I say I'm like obsessed a psychopast, but I read a lotof interviews and articles and part of it is because you know I'm a SEC majorI'man and normost. Like now. I took a personality site class where we talkedabout this a little bit, and I promise that thisill. This willcome to a question. So I believe you yeah long did you take the? Did youtake the psychopaththest yourself, Adid yeah, I'm not going to disclose my no.I just ca a very low score promise Shshe used airquots. I love that I could say whatever ishappeninging. Her Ta would actually have whether or not it's true, no andyeah, but super super interested in it. And thereason is because, like I'm very interested with sort of the criminaljustice system- and I think that that's a huge conversation, particularly inthe US- We got a huge prison population and I personally sort of of the mindthat that punishment or the justice system shouldbe more about rehabilitation and punishment, because I think it's betterand in the long run, but the reason I...

...bring that up is because I 'm so interested by the fact thatthat psychopat now psychopath is not a clum. It's not a clinical term okayit'sa colloqual term, but the closest it comes to like being in the the DSM issomething called: Antisocial: personality disorder, it'okay, sopsychoppath, Sociopatho, sort of Folm riter that category tes are people whohave a lack of regard for others and for the law. They have an ill inabilityto feel Morris or guilt. They don't have a conscience and- and so I think,it's estimated about one percent of the population- okay, Fou sort of underthat category, but it's estimated that it depends on the study sometimes up tofifty percent or seventy five percent of preson populations are sort oflebled, as you know, having a TI social personality to sort of you know,clloqullybing shrikopassor Sociopas, and so I just find that reallyinteresting, because these are people who addof neurological level are notcapable of of feeling Morse of feeling. You know empathy for other people and alot of those sort of mechanisms I think, are in large part responsible for whypeople don't commit crimes more than than we do right. Ti Os guilt, emorsympathy. All of that basically woat prevent us from becoming Xcite Welli'm,taking any action that would hurt for others ar right, there'ssor ejeancs,and so I guess my question is like: Is it fair to lock people up or to punish people who,at like a biological and chemical level or not capable of feeling the samethings that we are like? Should that take more rehabilitative route? Youknow that that is like a slippery slope, because you know people are reallyaffected by their their environments and their bology. But what do you guysthink about that? So I'm kind of laughing at myself, because this is- I wrote, a five pitch paper on thisvery recently onencurcoration reces on mental health yeahokayso. You came inwith two topics that was very well prepared for H, Wareso Metso, I'm veryinterested in mental health itself, not necessarily not necessarily from a psychological.More like more of it's more of a SOCIOC sociological and cultural kind ofaspect stay tune. I have a book coming out. It's Gointa be good twenty years and this year actuallyprobably wo thosand and nineteen, but Yuess ohwe'll talk about that onanother podcast an, but so there are a lot of problems withour prisons, an the incarporation rates yeah, I the one that I'm most. This istotally a side note, but there are a lot of people in prison.It's interesting that you bring up tha what you said like seventy five percent,fifty o seventy to pay on thes study. It depends on the steady, so gimes aslow as twenty five, sometimes as high as seety and a lot of thos people thatI feel like aren't labelled like that are in there for laws that shouldn't exist. o laws that,like a lot of drug log, VIOLENC sure sure a lot of yeah and so what's interesting to me, is that wehave such a large prison population and the the mental health services. Ourcounseling services provided are so inadequate that it's almost in a lot ofcases. It's almost abusive, just the the lack of services like regardless ofhow the inmates are name treated, the lack of services and options providedis almost ANETHEC is definitely an ethical, and so I think it's a huge problem. Ithink I don't know what to do with these. People, like, I think, lockingthem up is probably, or at least isolating them from the rest of society,for a time is great as a fine idea. As long as that's coupled with some sortof Rehab, have you seen Dexter yes aokay sodexter is, has no emotion whatsoever, but he's been taught that's a fit in insociety. He needs to act certain way, I'm not necessarily saying that's theanswer, but some sort of AL serial killers, no O, but some sort of programthat teaches people how like like what expectations, because a lot of peoplejust don't get it like. Don't aren't programmed understand it, but if yousay like this is what you should do of tha situation, or this is what like hownor like not normal but normal. How people should act? You can kind of notadjust their behavior. Necessarily but help them adapt right, and I think another problem here that Iwon't talk about as much but is the privatization of our prisonsystem is that a lot of Pirsons have no incentive to do that whatsoever becausethey're exclusively for profit and they're housing, people just to turn aprofhit on them, and so, if you're doing that, then why would you helpthem at all like if your money is based on you holding people for certainamounts of time and the longer you hold them or the more people you have thehigher profit you get. Why would you help them ever athapt? So I think it's.I think I don't know what the answer would be right now: decize locking themup, but I think that you're, not the system right now, is set up in such away that it's not designed to help them in any way and has actually designed tohurt them one term ye fear's the deal...

...you layit down dated all right. So I agree and I think a lot of people doagree that rehabilitation is a much stronger method of helping people andjust wacking them up O me. What does that do yeh this all I'm goingto go. You KnowDevil's advocate here and you know lave you address and you ere kind oftouching on this just now, but this all comes back to money, because if wereally have theif, we had the resources which I mean you could argue. What wedo is just whatever we do well, but okay, but why are the thing is: is thatit's not going there? Okay? So it's not going there either, because athe incentive is not that vague right, because the private person complex,like that's an entire industry based off of if you get locked up forsomething and you are labeled as you, your a sociopath or like whatever right, what like, who is going to pay, because that Gha's got to be expensiveright like serious, like rehabilitation like therapy right and so that person most likely will not havelike the means to pay for the cost of housing. Someone in prison is actuallyexpenentially more expensive than it is for Rehab for a lot of inmates, but ifyou give somebody rehave where they going to stay when they're, not in theRehab Theyve back in society, the same place all Iyes Constat, if in e placeto live there, pui couse, they live there with without being a Dangerousociety. Well, that's what I think like for me: That's where the difference isbecause, yes, I mean there is an issue with e privatization of prison systems,because prisons benefit from having more inmates right for a long period oftime, but in general, if yo're talking about the utility of the prison systemin society, you know if we, if you go more rehabilitative round or you knowyou talk about stigma surrounding mental health and and having likepreventative measures and having mental health care accessible, not even afterthe fact, after someone has committed a crime and I'm not saying that everyonewho has committed a crime is mentally ill right. There are lots and lots ofthings that that feed into that. But you know, studies show that that peopleare more likely to commit a crime and be reincarperated after they have beeninjai once right. Someone who's been in jails, more likely to go there thansomeone who hasn't been, and so I think the idea like you're talking abouthousing, an inmate is more expensive than mental health care reabilityt ofservices right. So, if we focus on that, yes, the private prison systems wouldwould suffer from that, but, as a whole, you know society would benefit byhaving more people, not behind bars, right in society being functioningmembers of society that are contributing to the economy right. So Ifeel, like it sort of depends on an who, who you're looking at right who'sbenefiting from this, because I think that that there's financial benefit onsort of both ends of the argument. It just depends on who you're looking at,I think yeah. I would agree with all of that, and I think Davids also right,though, that there's no incentive to change tere. The system like, I thinkthe system is objectively set up and structured in a way that prevents thatfrom happening. How do the private prison systems right now make money? Iactually don't know like how would I pay by the government right to houseinmates Ta, I'm saying so, if, if the government, this is all hypothetical, I know, Iknow a million reasons why this actually can't have it. But let's saywe got some like amazing kickas budget for these private prison systems, andthen it changed from okay you're going to house these people for temporarytime, but you're also going to use this money and pay for reavilitation andyou'll make X, profit they're, not going to say no, if the profits biggerbut the why they wouldn't turn their heads Nofer that O theyv been like.Realistically, the difference would have to come from the top down. I wont,I think we all comes back it Li, a Wehaver, simpl O, and we do have itjust literally just gut that out of the defense budget and it's totally fineyeah. Thank you. Likewell yeah, but I mean te reality. US is that, that's notyou know, and you could like I mean this is a whole nother, I'm not tryingto like go crazy but, like I mean not even Elon Musk and yous like no, but he could not create like a pivateprison to hold everybody and pay for rehabilitation. I mean this is such amassive problem like Hes, might be able to the thisrequires like the government,because when he dies what the hell of the inediou pass it on to Yelon Lest Jomoney, I'm telling Ou man needs to be from the government and more moneyneeds to get passed down. But nobody wants to come, Bunig FOM, anything. Wedon't want to laundry money or make fake money. You know, like wonder money,that's just douvls advocate, but I agree wits both of you, but I think Imean this is a and then we get o stal me, because I think that this you knowad this debate raving right now and magnify it to like. I don't know whomakes these damn decisions, the...

...administrations and governments andstuff Anbi Rad big like they have. They have a million oftheir reasons why like,and they all get in this fielmat and the thing ever changes yeah and theneveryone's like okay increase the vusion by this increase the budget bythat, and then by the time you increase the budget, inflation and theneverything just you would be have the most frustrated political science manever met yeah. That's why I'm not in that Shitsucomf like Jesus Tis. This isreally interesting to me, though, because I sort of have alwaysapproached this from like an ethical perspecture like a sycologicalperspective. Ir I was like, Oh you know is: Do we have free? Well right is ouryou know our neurobiology, which is really interesting to yeah like yeah?How much are people look foult for their actions, Blah Blah Bla Bhat, butI think that the you know becaus yeah, I don't know shit about Onomicai love,I ao a little bit btut, but I can't really go into into details, but Ithink that that's a really important part of the argument to address,because that is all an ethical question right.If dere we put our money and how people benefit from it, I think runs the world if you'reinterested tune in the next week's podcast, wherewe will probably have the founder of effected altraism on our campus woubetter. Have, I hope so I don't know whe'll see F, he shows but listen money,money talks you know, Ou got. I mean everybody's going to say. Of course Iwant this. Of course I want that, but like no one's going to actually do itunless there's Montor incentive, which then you could say Woll loll howcorrupt and like money Driin, we are because I totally agree with you. Imean fom, an ethical standpoint, but I'm I'm, I don't know anything abouteconomics to we really like erpolitical science. That's wher, you com min neck,but like that's, what I think is maybe what'sholding us this film mate right N and I honestly don't know how else. Besides taking money, I mean e,you could take budget, TAKE MONEY OUT OF BUDGET AAND put it into this budgetyeah. But I don't know who I mean especiallyright now. I don't know who theellas Goingno do that I don't blame you for being pessimistic.I think in this case, pessimism is realistic right because I think thatthe prison system is just really fundamentally broken on so many levels.You know so yeah. I know I can't propose I realistic like applicable solution, but I yeah, I think it's a goodconversation to have yeah tweet at us. Let us know what he saying: What do you chcter yeah? It's like T, forty yeah, not really I've had anyway.Accordingly down. That's all the time we have got poitithat's. Okay, we did earlierto just Anan Epam we're GOINGTA leave all of this in all right. That's theepisode! Listen to us on. I Tunes Google Play Music Pod bean hit a up onFACEBOOK, twitter instagram! Don't do not ask us to be a guest. We Hav Lis.We have literally three months. FOURSE GUESTS LINE UP SA sho have equestid too,on the show. Thank you hat kate, for coming out.Thanks for IG, great topicisabsolutely, fantastic.

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